Made this post earlier in the day at Newsarama (while starting a thread for it).
Link: http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=150418
Given the multiple titles for the JLA and (Teen) Titans...one can expect DC to start up a second JSA ongoing (especially with JSAC coming to an end).
Me thinks that if/when it does get going the *Justice Society* series will be based on on 'New' Earth but on Earth-2. With Johns shoving in one character after another from Kingdom Crap, the team's size is is well past its 'best before' size. There is no way each character is going to get a part...not without quite a few issues in-between each proper appearance/part.
Moreover, with KC's Superman already in and the way Johns is positioning him -- everyone automatically looking up to him, Johns' whimpy-fying of Power Girl going into overdrive, pushing her to the back/shadows (even though she is the CHAIRPERSON of the damn team), the 'ideological' differences between various team-members, and the upcoming E2 visits and/or splits in the team --
--- *Justice Society* could be the series for the characters who stay/move to E2 with Power Girl and Super-Loser filling in the empty spaces left by the disappearance of the *NEW* E2 PG and Supes.
Also, unless DC has already swept it away, this E2 is NOT the original E2. It is the new 'similar' version formed after Mr. Mind's moth form (whatisname) made a meal of the various Earths in 52. Therefore, this E2 is NOT Power Girl's original Earth. Also, even though both might have white/grey hair KC Supes is miles (in shades of dark/serious) from the fairly simple and clean hearted E2 Supes. The two just don't fit...especially if *NEW* E2 is going to be portrayed in the same 'Simple People/Earth' way of Pre-COIE E2.
Monday, March 17, 2008
Thursday, March 13, 2008
A passing 'review-esque' thought...
(From another of my posts on the 'rama. This one's about a few of the issues out this week).
GA/BC #6: Started last issue...and I don't I'm going to last long with this one, primarily because of Black Canary. Just can't stand her character, haven't ever. Just what the hell was DC thinking rebooting the previous GA title? If the sales are anything to go by the reboot is going be a failure (sales are set to fall below that of the previous title).
Wonder Woman #18: I first dropped this title with issue #2. Returned (with cautious hope) when Gail Simone took over. Am dropping this again. This 'Diana Prince' is NOT Wonder Woman. And I thought things couldn't get any worse than what they were with Allen Heinberg.
Gotham Underground #6: Haven't gotten to it yet.
Tiny Titans #2: This is a 'guilty pleasure' title, and in that it succeeds.
GA/BC #6: Started last issue...and I don't I'm going to last long with this one, primarily because of Black Canary. Just can't stand her character, haven't ever. Just what the hell was DC thinking rebooting the previous GA title? If the sales are anything to go by the reboot is going be a failure (sales are set to fall below that of the previous title).
Wonder Woman #18: I first dropped this title with issue #2. Returned (with cautious hope) when Gail Simone took over. Am dropping this again. This 'Diana Prince' is NOT Wonder Woman. And I thought things couldn't get any worse than what they were with Allen Heinberg.
Gotham Underground #6: Haven't gotten to it yet.
Tiny Titans #2: This is a 'guilty pleasure' title, and in that it succeeds.
DC's January 2008 Sales...Post #6
6) Ms. Simone was kind enough to respond to some of the points raised (both by me and other posters) regarding the Wonder Woman series. There were a few other posters who posted after her (in relation to her post). My response is (as usual) posted below after hers...and a poster by the name of Viv Vega.
Exactly.
I am not contesting the 'quality' of the current Wonder Woman series (now, NOT the past craptacular issues) but the numbers just aren't there. Also, while a 20K sales figure might make for WSU's top selling ongoing it below dismal for a DCU title. And yes, I know, good/great/top sales quantity doesn't nec. mean good/great/top quality and vice versa but as Vic Vega posted...HUSH had the sales numbers...both because of Jim Lee and JEFF LOEB. Loeb might not be (us) InterWeb fanbois' *favored* writer but he does get the numbers. Just take a look at his gawd-awful Wolverine run.
That said...Wonder Woman isn't in a danger of getting cancelled even if sales fall to even half of the current (like say titles like the All-New Atom). I don't know much about what setup DC has with the Marston estate/trust...but I am pretty sure it requires them to have a Wonder Woman ongoing.
Nevertheless for a character with such a long history, and one who is billed/marketed as one of the Big-3 it is rather...disheartening. It doesn't help the Post-IC return to Diana Prince and other Silver Age crap (and scuttling of just about all major character developments in the previous series i.e. the last two decades) has alienated quite a few fans of that series/character, (I am among one of those fans).
Also, its isn't the fanboys who don't like anthologies...its the fanboys who love them. The others already have their share of 'character team-ups' with the dozen or so *guest appearances* DC has in their titles every month. From Superman appearing in Blue Beetle to Batman in Firestorm to the JSA in Nightwing. A title such as BnB worked when the characters had essentially 'independent universes'...but now...well...
Originally Posted by Gail Simone
Well, to be fair, Birds of Prey was one of DC's most consistant sellers for the entire time I was on the book, Gen13 sold the best of all the WSU relaunches that actually came out (to everyone's surprise considering the heavy hitters on some of the other books) and Tranquility's tpb outsold all the other WSU relaunch collections (which was an even bigger surprise). No one expected anything out of any of those titles, actually, and a couple were downright injured properties when I took them over.
Plus the trades of my stuff tend to stay in print because they continue to sell long after the initial orders.
I heard from retailers over and over that it's going to take some time to rebuild faith in Wonder Woman, and I think that's understandable. But above all, what matters to me is whether or not the book is any good, and I believe it is. In the past, that's been a pretty good indicator for me as to whether or not a book finds an audience. At some stores, the book sells like hotcakes. We're just hoping that the enthusiastic response will spread, as it has in the past for books like Bop. It's a very entertaining book, and the art is gorgeous.
Best,
Gail
Plus the trades of my stuff tend to stay in print because they continue to sell long after the initial orders.
I heard from retailers over and over that it's going to take some time to rebuild faith in Wonder Woman, and I think that's understandable. But above all, what matters to me is whether or not the book is any good, and I believe it is. In the past, that's been a pretty good indicator for me as to whether or not a book finds an audience. At some stores, the book sells like hotcakes. We're just hoping that the enthusiastic response will spread, as it has in the past for books like Bop. It's a very entertaining book, and the art is gorgeous.
Best,
Gail
Originally Posted by Vic Vega
"For Tomorrow" and "Hush" were the WORST SUPERMAN AND BATMANS STORIES I'VE EVER READ.
But they sold like hotcakes. Why?
Jim Lee, mainly.
The only misstep D.C.'s made was assigning Lee to a book that only comes out once every 6 months.
Or putting Perez on an anthology books since fanboys don't like anthologys.
Alernate Lee and Perez on D.C.'s top tier books and you'll get sales without even changing anything else.
It's really that simple.
Remember for fans of BOTH Marvel and D.C., an artist is only hot once he or she's worked for Marvel and been deemed hot. Oliver Copiel is a perfect example of this.
But they sold like hotcakes. Why?
Jim Lee, mainly.
The only misstep D.C.'s made was assigning Lee to a book that only comes out once every 6 months.
Or putting Perez on an anthology books since fanboys don't like anthologys.
Alernate Lee and Perez on D.C.'s top tier books and you'll get sales without even changing anything else.
It's really that simple.
Remember for fans of BOTH Marvel and D.C., an artist is only hot once he or she's worked for Marvel and been deemed hot. Oliver Copiel is a perfect example of this.
Exactly.
I am not contesting the 'quality' of the current Wonder Woman series (now, NOT the past craptacular issues) but the numbers just aren't there. Also, while a 20K sales figure might make for WSU's top selling ongoing it below dismal for a DCU title. And yes, I know, good/great/top sales quantity doesn't nec. mean good/great/top quality and vice versa but as Vic Vega posted...HUSH had the sales numbers...both because of Jim Lee and JEFF LOEB. Loeb might not be (us) InterWeb fanbois' *favored* writer but he does get the numbers. Just take a look at his gawd-awful Wolverine run.
That said...Wonder Woman isn't in a danger of getting cancelled even if sales fall to even half of the current (like say titles like the All-New Atom). I don't know much about what setup DC has with the Marston estate/trust...but I am pretty sure it requires them to have a Wonder Woman ongoing.
Nevertheless for a character with such a long history, and one who is billed/marketed as one of the Big-3 it is rather...disheartening. It doesn't help the Post-IC return to Diana Prince and other Silver Age crap (and scuttling of just about all major character developments in the previous series i.e. the last two decades) has alienated quite a few fans of that series/character, (I am among one of those fans).
Also, its isn't the fanboys who don't like anthologies...its the fanboys who love them. The others already have their share of 'character team-ups' with the dozen or so *guest appearances* DC has in their titles every month. From Superman appearing in Blue Beetle to Batman in Firestorm to the JSA in Nightwing. A title such as BnB worked when the characters had essentially 'independent universes'...but now...well...
Wednesday, March 12, 2008
DC's January 2008 Sales...Post #5
5) 'm posting the original posters post for this one too...and once again my response is posted after it.
The *tieing everything and the kitchen sink* together...while it has the potential to have a reader(s) pick up the 'related' titles also has an equal potential for the reader(s) to drop a whole bunch of titles together. It doesn't help that for every second (if not every) DC title that the readers read they have to google/wiki/whatever some obscure long (and in cases, rightly) forgotten event/character that has been *NEW Earth-ed* back...in many cases vastly changed from their original incarnation.
Originally Posted by nightw1ng
i think a lot of it is DC putting too many of their eggs in one basket (i.e. everything Countdown/Crisis related). look at marvel. they're not just focusing on one big event, they had messiah complex for the x-men, brand new day for spidey, annihilation for the cosmic books, world war hulk, civil war, and now secret invasion. with dc, it's like they're trying to tie every single book together. crisis after crisis. weekly after weekly with even more tie-ins. while they're headed in the right direction with things like the sinestro corps, they still could do a lot more.
plain and simple, to invest in a dc story, you have to literally invest more money and the casual buyer isn't going to want to do that.
plain and simple, to invest in a dc story, you have to literally invest more money and the casual buyer isn't going to want to do that.
The *tieing everything and the kitchen sink* together...while it has the potential to have a reader(s) pick up the 'related' titles also has an equal potential for the reader(s) to drop a whole bunch of titles together. It doesn't help that for every second (if not every) DC title that the readers read they have to google/wiki/whatever some obscure long (and in cases, rightly) forgotten event/character that has been *NEW Earth-ed* back...in many cases vastly changed from their original incarnation.
DC's January 2008 Sales...Post #4
4) This one is response to a poster quoting sales for Villains United (Villains United 4 sold DC 84,700 )to disprove my point about Gail Simone not being a 'big sales numbers' writer (not yet anyways).
It was an EVENT tie-in...an event that was hyped/marketed as the BIGGEST DC event ever. Its bound to sell. Just see the sales figures of the Secret Six mini and compare the two. SS 'cause it was the same author, was a six-issue mini (I think) and didn't have the Infinite Crisis juggernaut driving/pulling it up.
It was an EVENT tie-in...an event that was hyped/marketed as the BIGGEST DC event ever. Its bound to sell. Just see the sales figures of the Secret Six mini and compare the two. SS 'cause it was the same author, was a six-issue mini (I think) and didn't have the Infinite Crisis juggernaut driving/pulling it up.
DC's January 2008 Sales...Post #3
3) This is the response that the poster (ESF) made to my previous post. My response to this one is posted under it...
As I said in post, Wonder Woman doesn't have an A-level creative team...not in terms of quality mind you but in terms of being able to get quantity. Ms. Simone has fans, some of them very vocal (just like with any other writer/artist) but they are very few in number...solely going by the sales figures on the titles she has worked on/with in the past (Birds of Prey, Gen13, The All New Atom, Welcome to Tranquility).
Originally Posted by ElijahSnowFan
now, ok. i'll agree that the relaunch failed miserably -- hell, i've said it enough.
but at the same time, Simone/Dodson are telling good stories with a known character, and it's shedding readers. now certainly, i can't and won't speak for everyone, but i've been around long enough to know a bad comic book when i see one, and this book is FAR from that. i mean, seriously -- it's a good book.
there's something not right about...i don't know. it's hard to put my finger on it. i'm serious, though -- some of those books just should be doing better -- shedding readers like some of them are...i don't know. it's just hard to figure out why.
but at the same time, Simone/Dodson are telling good stories with a known character, and it's shedding readers. now certainly, i can't and won't speak for everyone, but i've been around long enough to know a bad comic book when i see one, and this book is FAR from that. i mean, seriously -- it's a good book.
there's something not right about...i don't know. it's hard to put my finger on it. i'm serious, though -- some of those books just should be doing better -- shedding readers like some of them are...i don't know. it's just hard to figure out why.
As I said in post, Wonder Woman doesn't have an A-level creative team...not in terms of quality mind you but in terms of being able to get quantity. Ms. Simone has fans, some of them very vocal (just like with any other writer/artist) but they are very few in number...solely going by the sales figures on the titles she has worked on/with in the past (Birds of Prey, Gen13, The All New Atom, Welcome to Tranquility).
DC's January 2008 Sales...Post #2
2) In response to a poster's questioning/wondering about the falling sales of the Wonder Woman ongoing (even with a new creative team onboard)
1) The relaunch was soooo much hyped that its dismal delivery made for a double whammy.
2) DC's inability/failure to set up Wondy properly as 'One of the big three'
3) Despite the art, writing, etc etc being good...there is no BIG NAME creator (i.e. someone proven to bring in the big number sales). Batman gets Morrison, Superman gets Johns, Wonder Woman gets...Jim Lee's college-mate. Granted that 'run' is over (and forgotten) but still, give Wondy an A-level writer/creator/etc.
And those are just three points. 'm pretty sure someone can come up with more (better ones).
1) The relaunch was soooo much hyped that its dismal delivery made for a double whammy.
2) DC's inability/failure to set up Wondy properly as 'One of the big three'
3) Despite the art, writing, etc etc being good...there is no BIG NAME creator (i.e. someone proven to bring in the big number sales). Batman gets Morrison, Superman gets Johns, Wonder Woman gets...Jim Lee's college-mate. Granted that 'run' is over (and forgotten) but still, give Wondy an A-level writer/creator/etc.
And those are just three points. 'm pretty sure someone can come up with more (better ones).
DC's January 2008 Sales (Posts from the Newsarama discussion)
THE BEAT posted DC's January 2008 sales and I started a thread for it on Newsarama.
'm posting my posts from that discussions. Will be adds posts as the discussion goes along...
1) OPENER:
Its up...DC month-to-Month Sales January 2008
http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/b...-january-2008/
The first line of the whole (blog) post...
With Justice League of America, DC Comics only had one book selling above 70,000 units in January.
'm posting my posts from that discussions. Will be adds posts as the discussion goes along...
1) OPENER:
Its up...DC month-to-Month Sales January 2008
http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/b...-january-2008/
The first line of the whole (blog) post...
With Justice League of America, DC Comics only had one book selling above 70,000 units in January.
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